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The tension is winding up. CSC are leading the train heading for destiny at  L'Alpe-d'Huez.

Schleck has to attack, he knows that is his chance. Can Evans hold on?

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 10:58:11 AM EST
Hmm. I'm not saying.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 11:54:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I was out on my bike and I can tell you no other cyclist overtook me, only cars and motorbikes. Evans win!

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 03:58:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
He could hold on enough to make his victory almost certain after Saturday's time trials.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 12:51:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think Saturday will be very close. Menchov looks to have ridden his way out of any chance though.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 12:54:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Close - between Sastre and Evans, or Sastre and Schleck?

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 12:56:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Evans, I dont think Schleck is a good enough time trialist to compete with Evans. Evans isn't really far enough back for it Normally to be a challenge, I'd reckon on Sastre needing in excess of 2 minutes to beat Evans over the time trial distance, but he has been steadily improving over the last few years, and going into the time trial in Yellow should be good for about 30 seconds (BOE). so it's all looking very close.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 01:03:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Meta-comment: political advertisements on the asphalt are still "in" on the Tour. It was maybe last Monday's final when on the last kilometre, there were linke six dozen "ETA" drawings on the pavement. And when the Tour passed over Italy on a 2700m+ pass (was it this Monday?), there was "NON A LA LOUP" or something - locals who don't want wild wolves getting free television time.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 12:55:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I noticed the signs in at least 3 stages in southern France and I have to think security forces must feel it's well under control, or they wouldn't take a chance?  The arrests at the leadership level in France and Spain seem to occur on a regular basis.

I couldn´t catch any other related words, so it may be a distraction?  

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 01:37:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The way I heard it, it's actually much worse: the ETA sings are there every year, and they are 'tolerated' so that ETA doesn't attack the Tour.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 01:51:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is drug taking still a big thing ? I always got the impression that, like sprinting in athletics, everybody's at it and so the best pharma wins. and the careless one gets busted.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 01:11:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Now thats one of the big questions.  and any answer would lead to charges of Hopeless Nievete/lack of trust in the new generation of riders depending on your personal feelings.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 01:20:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My counterintuitive view on this is that cycling used to be like that, but today, the last few years' scandals generated such oversight that most won't risk it (or even pull out in the middle of the Tour to not get caught). I.e. I think the present Tour's scandals show that at least on the Tour (the Tour is in battle with the Cycling Association) the system working, rather than failing (especially if I think of how Beltrán was caught: he must have thought he has a fair chance to not get netted if he doesn't finish first or gains the yellow jersey).

Thinking of other sports, I think the biggest scandal in cycling, Operación Puerto, is instructive. Of the 200 clients, only cyclists were identified. (Unfortunately in Spain, even the legal case against these foundered; I'd appreciate if one of our Spanish-speaking readers could find an article on its background.) But it is known that the majority of clients were NOT cyclists: there were unidentified top footballers and tennis players among them. Real Madrid and Barcelona were in suspicion. And one remembers how the big doping investigation into Italy's Serie A ended: without any results. (We only have anecdotal evidence like Arsène Wenger's secretive claim about Arsenal's doctors discovering evidence of heavy systematic doping in unidentified players imported from Mediterranean countries.)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 01:31:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It wouldn't surprise me in football at all. A couple of decades ago most footballers were normal sized or just a bit taller. In the 60s 6 feet 2 inches (1m 70?) was tall, now it's normal. That their physical size is getting noticeably larger in the last decade or so cannot be just the result of western diets.


keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 01:53:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
? Aint' everyone getting bigger?

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 01:57:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC News | UK | Stand up for your height

As standards of living and nutrition have improved, the average Briton has got taller at the rate of three-quarters of an inch each generation.

The official Health of the Nation figures show that 30% of men aged under 25 are now over six feet tall. If the current trend continues, the average British man's height will be 6ft within a couple of generations and the average woman will be nudging 5ft 7in.



*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 02:00:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No. The Americans stopped getting taller a while ago. (I'm assuming that by "bigger" you were referring to height, not width...)
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 05:22:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But that ties in to a lower socio-economic level for much of the American populace (lack of health benefits, little leisure time, malnutrition).
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 05:51:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is the result of selection at an early age - that used to be done on grounds of potential, now on potential and height.

I'm not saying substances are not also involved, though.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 04:03:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
i think the biggest spurt happened in japan, where in one generation sons grew a whole head taller than fathers.

it's got to be the added protein in a much meatier diet, but is bigger (taller) always healthier?

i wonder if upped cancer rates are a collateral effect of too much this.

improved nutrition has definitely had salutary effects too, don't get me wrong...

rickets can really spoil a future, just like the so-called 'diseases of civilisation', ie those that are not dependent on 3rd world sanitary or dietary disaster zones, but indeed flourish where there is a surplus of goods.

heart disease, diabetes, obesity etc, as opposed to yer malaria, tb, etc.

which, if i think about it, is a historical blip due to oil's concentrated energy. this led to bigger plants too, but again, does the fact that there is more food, or bigger plants, really signify more than short-term advantage?

there could be a metaphor for the whole paradigm embedded herein, it seems.

i even see it in italy. the old boy who sold me this property was in his eighties, about 5 ft tall, but he was spry and vigorous as a man half his age, wizened, sure, from a lifetime starting around 7 years old pulling weeds in the tobacco fields or something similar, signed the contract with an illiterate X, while his son who co-signed was overweight and had serious heart problems causing him to retire early, though he was quite a bit taller too, and could read and write.

in catapulting ourselves out of poverty, it seems like we zoomed right by the moderation station and right on out into the other extreme...

when i started vegetarianism in '69, the shock and horror from my parents' crowd was very strange to me, till i understood i was in some way betraying their concepts, even insulting them by my choices, even though that was ridiculous!

now of course, people are a lot more open and understanding about these things, but it sure was no pique-nique back then. talk about swimming against the current!

well worth it though...

The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. Chinese Proverb.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 07:25:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I remember reading that Longevity peaks at a height of around 6'4", above that blood preasure and heart attacks from the strain of pumping blood that extra altitude  knock life expectancy back spectacularly.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 07:48:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I remember when I started going vegetarian, one of the standard comments, after a moment of reflection, would be:"Mmmhhh, I don't think that would be for me, I like to eat delicious food." :-) If they only knew!!!!

In general I find it frustrating at times, how little most people realise how much food affects their health. Even more disappointing that many people in the medical field also ingore it and some don't even want to know. About three years ago a medical student told me about his frustration about having to learn all that useless stuff like vitamines and minerals etc., because he wanted to become a REAL medical doctor. Or an gastroentrologist who told his patient with crohns disease that he can eat and dring what ever he likes, even alcohol, as food does not affect the intestines. :-(

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 01:55:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
major disconnect there, fran!

i hear the same response, who'd have thought grains, beans and veggies could fill you up, and leave you feeling light at the same time?

mt son-in-law has taken a shine to tempeh while visiting here, and now wants it all the time, my daughter tells me.

not surprised, as tempeh has a really subtle texture and taste, and so many peeps (outside indonesia) have never encountered it.

me, i lervs it, terminal yum-

The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. Chinese Proverb.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 02:04:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, surprise there. :-) it is amazing how little children would pick healthy things if given the choice early on in live.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 02:18:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
so true. my daughter went to visit her g-parents in NY when she was two, after only eating fruit sugars up to then. when asked what her favourite dishes were, she said, 'broccoli and artichokes'!

her grandma was amazed that after two dates, she would say 'enough, that's so sweet'.

no antibiotics the whole childhood... any infections easily treated with simples.

The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. Chinese Proverb.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 06:55:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have found in Google this:

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operaci%C3%B3n_Puerto
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operaci%C3%B3n_Puerto_doping_case
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2006/06/27/ciclismo/1151402208.html
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/ano/Operacion/Puerto/elpepudep/20070522elpepudep_17/Tes
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/caras/Operacion/Puerto/elpepudep/20070522elpepudep_18/Tes
http://www.cerodopaje.es/cerodopaje/noticias/pound-no-ve-creible-que-la-operacion-puerto-afecte-solo -al-ciclismo
http://www.cadenaser.com/articulo/deportes/Ciclismo/Operacion/Puerto/Informe/Guardia/Civil/Capitulo/ I/csrcsrpor/20060712csrcsrdep_8/Tes/
http://www.cadenaser.com/deportes/articulo/ciclismo-operacion-puerto-informe-guardia/sernot/20060712 csrcsrdep_9/Tes
http://www.cadenaser.com/articulo/deportes/Ciclismo/Operacion/Puerto/Informe/Guardia/Civil/Capitulo/ IV/csrcsrpor/20060714csrcsrdep_10/Tes/
http://www.esciclismo.com/ampliada.asp?Id=2952
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/puerto_complete
http://elmundodeporte.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2006/05/29/ciclismo/1148920297.html
http://olganza.com/2007/03/10/carpetazo-definitivo-a-la-polemica-%E2%80%98operacion-puerto%E2%80%99/
http://www.deia.com/es/impresa/2007/03/10/bizkaia/kirolak/345496.php
http://www.noticiasdegipuzkoa.com/ediciones/2007/03/10/deportes/ciclismo/d10cic72.507174.php
http://www.libertaddigital.com/index.php?action=desanoti&cpn=1276300966

When Procrustes looks after you, you're sure to fit in.
by PerCLupi on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 02:24:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thatnks, but unfortunately, I don't speak Spanish! (And I already read the English Wiki page - which only states the bare facts, without any speculation as to the why-s.)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 02:37:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sorry. I misunderstand this: "I'd appreciate if one of our Spanish-speaking readers could find an article on its background." I'll try, but in English...

When Procrustes looks after you, you're sure to fit in.
by PerCLupi on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 03:32:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OK, OK... I meant "find, read, and summarize in English" :-) (Germam or Hungarian will also do ;-) )

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 04:00:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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